CB, Raven and Lucille
All the reports from the various suppliers around here will at least reference the use of chloramines, if not show an actual average measurement.
\Steve//
> —–Original Message—– > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of > Lenny V. aka GoldLenny > Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 5:19 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: CB, Raven and Lucille > > \Steve//, > > My Parish (same as County in other States) uses Chloramine but the annual > water report still references chlorine since that is all the EPA requires. > See my blog about “Chlorine - Chloramine Information” for actual emails > between me and the chemists at the utility and their explanation. > > Lenny Vasbinder > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > (Links to any articles referenced in above reply are listed on the right > side, alphabetically under Labels and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > —–Original Message—– > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Steve Szabo > Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 12:55 AM > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: CB, Raven and Lucille > > I’ve been wondering why you have been waiting for the water people to reply. > The company or town department that supplies the water should have a web > site, and on that web site should be the latest report available for public > consumption that will tell you whether chloramines are used and a lot of > other stuff, possibly some that you really don’t want to read . > > \Steve// > > > —–Original Message—– > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > ] On Behalf Of > > Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 12:55 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: CB, Raven and Lucille > > > > Thursday Night Check in (Day 15 reduced salt - 31 total)(PraziPro > > treatment ended yesterday) > > > > Tuesday: > > - pH: 7.4; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: just over 0ppm; Nitrate: 10ppm > > - PWC (5tsp salt, .5ml Prime) > > > > Wednesday: > > - pH: 7.4; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: just over 10ppm > > - PWC (5tsp salt, .5ml Prime) > > > > Thursday (Today): > > - pH: 7.4; Ammonia: just under .25ppm; Nitrite: .25ppm; Nitrate: just > > under 20ppm > > > > I’ll be doing a PWC first thing in the morning, then readings later at > > night. > > > > The “glitter” is shiny iridescent pearl color - the same as most of > > Lucille’s body. She does have some pale Cheetos-colored areas starting > > to show on her body and gills, and spreading out from the deep orange > > spot on her head. The red on her tail seems to be taming down to an > orange, also. > > It’s all in the normal color range for a goldfish. Any “flashing” that > > I’ve seen seems to be in the process of playing in the filter current > > - not so much flashing as the fact that the current pushes them > > towards the plastic bridge and they glance off of it sometimes. > > > > I’m thinking, just for peace of mind, of going ahead with the > > Acriflavin treatment. It would put the kibosh on any remaining fungus, > > and from what I’m reading online, it would also take care of any > > velvet if it’s present. The PraziPro treatment is done and I’m in the > > process of removing it through PWCs and carbon filtering. > > > > I use the API Freshwater Master Test Kit. Yes, the in-between #s are > > estimates based on color gradient. I’m think there must be > > chloramines, also. Maybe someday I’ll get a response from the water > > department. My bill comes from the Township, but the water comes from > > Detroit and, rather than talk to some secretary, I sent an email to the > water processing department. > > Hopefully, now that the holidays are over, I will get a reply, but > > where else would ammonia come from 24 hours after getting a zero? > > > > Will any dechlor really be alright once the tank get cycled? I thought > > Ray had said I would need to stick with the Prime if the tap water has > > chloramines. > > > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > —– Original Message —– > > From: “Lenny V. aka GoldLenny” > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 10:12 AM > > Subject: RE: [AquaticLife] Re: CB, Raven and Lucille > > > > > > The breeding stars or breeding tubercles are little white bumps on the > > gill covers and on the leading edges of the pectoral fins. Bumps > > anywhere else on the fish need to be diagnosed. > > > > The glitter look… what color is it?… could just be the natural > > reflection of a healthy fish or worse case, it could be the start of > > another sickness called Velvet - Description - Powder-like white, grey > > or gold dusting on surface of fish (finer than ich, more similar to > > the consistency of talc) from Pandora’s Fish Disease page - > > http://preview.tinyurl.com/2m83ee > > and more reading here > > http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/docs/health/othprotist.shtml > > > > and here > > http://www.fishvet.com/Oodinium.pdf > > > > and this long case history with lots of pics.. > > http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/BugsyCostia0503.html > > > > (while Dataguru is very well read and knowledgeable, she and some of > > the fellow goldfish keepers at thegab.org have lots of fish health > > problems because they insist on promoting 10G per goldfish in her GAB > > forums… so those forums are a very good place to read and learn > > about goldfish from others mistakes… and what not to do.) > > > > Normally, the fish would appear sick with clamped fins, > > flashing/scratching on surfaces in the tank, etc. The salt treatment > > you did would/should have also taken care of any Ich or Velvet as well > > so I’m leaning against it being Velvet. Have you been looking at > > pictures of healthy goldfish to see if you see this same “look”? With > > all the problems that you’ve had, for a while, you will be predisposed > > to think normal things might be a problem. It’s a natural reaction. > > > > Now… for your test results… > > Which brand kit do you have? You are showing levels of ammonia and > > nitrite in the 0.1 ppm range which is not a typical level reported by > > most test kits that I’ve used… or are you kind of guessing them > > numbers based on the color range between 0.0ppm and 0.25ppm? I also > > want to make sure that your test kit actually tests that low and that > > you didn’t misplace the decimal point. Normally, we don’t worry about > > levels below 0.25 in a tank that is still cycling…. although yours > should be darn close to being completed. > > > > Since you are showing ammonia in your 48 hour tap water baseline > > tests, it likely means that you do have chloramine treated tap water. > > Your Prime will handle that with no problems and once your tank’s > > nitrogen cycle is fully established, any dechlor will be OK. > > > > Lenny Vasbinder > > Fish Blog - http://GoldLenny.blogspot.com > > (Links to any articles referenced in > > above reply are listed on the right side, alphabetically under Labels > > and also under Archives by Year, Month) > > > > > > —–Original Message—– > > From: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > [mailto:AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > ] On Behalf Of > > Menagerie_Manager > > Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 1:15 AM > > To: AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: CB, Raven and Lucille > > > > Monday Night Check in (Day 12 reduced salt - 28 total) (3 days > > PraziPro) > > > > - Baseline 48 Hours: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: slightly over .25ppm; Nitrite: > > 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm This was done on straight tap water - no Prime. > > I’ll have to do another with the Prime and see what the difference is. > > I’m waiting on a call back from the water company for the chloramine info. > > - Tank: pH: 7.4; Ammonia: .10 to .15ppm; Nitrite: .10ppm; Nitrate: > > 10ppm > > - Lucille is getting more red, this time along the lower edge of the tail. > > It really does look blood red, not like the deep orange on her head. > > I’ve never seen a goldfish turn this color red. But she seems to be > > acting normal. She(probably he) does seem a bit plump, though - not > > dropsy, scale spreading plump, but still rather round - fat, maybe? > > - The reason I said probably he is that I think I’m starting to see > > that what-do-you-call-it, starring? It looks like someone sprinkled > > fairy dust along her (sorry) back. It doesn’t look like white specs of > > salt. It looks more like glitter. > > > > —– Original Message —– > > From: “Menagerie_Manager” > > > > > > To: > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 1:31 AM > > Subject: Re: [AquaticLife] Re: CB, Raven and Lucille (was: Newbie with > > a fungus problem?) > > > > > Sunday Night Check in (Day 11 of reduced salt - 27 total) > > > > > > - I haven’t seen a fish resting on the bottom of the tank ALL DAY!!! > > > 
> > > - Baseline 24 hours: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: almost .25ppm; Nitrite: 0ppm; > > > Nitrate: 0ppm > > > - Tank (wasn’t able to do a PWC yet- I’m off to do that as soon as I > > > send this message): pH: 7.4; Ammonia: .25ppm; Nitrite: .10 to > > > .15ppm; > > > Nitrate: slightly over 10ppm > > > - 5G PWC (as soon as I sign off) (including 5tsp salt, 1.25ml > > > PraziPro, and .5ml Prime) > > > > > > Does ammonium show up on the ammonia test or if it were all > > > converted, would the test read zero? > > > > > > Is there anything besides PWCs or adding plants that will help > > > remove the nitrates once the tank is completely cycled? > > > > > > Oh criminy, the cat just knocked over the Christmas tree. I’m off to > > > pick it up and do the PWC. > > > > > > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > > > > > > > > —– Original Message —– > > > From: “Raymond Wetzel” > > > > > > > > > To: > > > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 8:00 AM > > > Subject: [AquaticLife] Re: CB, Raven and Lucille (was: Newbie with a > > > fungus > > > problem?) > > > > > > > > > Good move on changing the subject line — and being ABLE to change it. > > > Nice to see that the fungus issue is behind you; that’s at least one > > > step in the right direction in getting these fish back to good health. > > > CB’s increased activity is even more encouraging than before. > > > > > > Keeping an eye on the ammonia level, I would do an additional PWC > > > (but a somewhat smaller one) at this time, and replace the removed > > > PraziPro, and add Prime with it. While you don’t want the ammonia > > > (ammonium) to increase much more, neither do you want to physically > > > remove too much ammonium yet even though ideally you would strive > > > for a zero (0) ammonia level in a fully cycled tank. I’m not fully > > > convinced that your tank is completely cycled yet. You don’t want to > > > starve out your nitrifying bacteria — but happily, your midnight > > > readings indicate your nitrobacters and nitrospinas (nitrite- > > > converting bacteria) are WELL populated as witness the 0 reading of > > > this compound, having been completely converted to nitrate, but for > > > some reason the nitrosomonas and nitrospiras (ammonia-converting > > > bacteria) seem a bit slow and their populations may need building up > > > (and would need food/ammonium with it). > > > > > > The baseline readings certainly make it appear as though your tap > > > water does not contain chloramine, yet an earlier baseline reading > > > of your tap water appeared to be a contradictory enigma when in went > > > from 0.0 to 0.25 the next day. To be assured on this, I’d suggest > > > you still contact your water company tomorrow, as was planned. > > > > > > You might give PetSmart a call on whether they do water testing, > > > before going there, but I tend to doubt that they do (hope I’m wrong). > > > If need be, give the LFS a shot at it while watching for his proper > > > procedures. As long as he makes these tests properly and gives you > > > the actual results (check those readings along with him, if he > > > allows), you don’t need to take any further advise from him > > > regarding these readings. > > > > > > I would maintain the salt at its present level for the time being. > > > This amount should not interfere with any of the aquarium’s life > > > functions, unless you have plants; I’d wait until you’re completely > > > out of the woods with health concerns, and continue watching any > > > further red streaking of any fins. With your suspicion of Raven’s > > > and CB’s tails being nipped by Lucille now being confirmed, this may > > > be the direct cause of the redness in CB’s tail and this salt > > > addition will help prevent any fungusing of the damaged tissue. As I > > > first started reading this account of CB having a shortened and > > > raggedy caudal fin, the disease of fin-rot went through my mind up > > > until I read your sighting of Lucille picking on the other two fish. > > > Hiding places and plant cover do seem in order, but this behavior > > > only increases the need for a larger tank sooner. As this may be > > > pre- spawning behavior on the part of Lucille, you may have to > > > change her (his? name to Louis! (LOL) Ray > > > > > > > > > > > > — In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > , “Menagerie_Manager” > > > wrote: > > >> > > >> > > > Saturday Night Check in (Day 10 of reduced salt - 26 total): > > >> > > >> - Baseline #1 on straight tap water: pH: 7.6; Ammonia: 0ppm; > > > Nitrite: > > >> 0ppm; Nitrate: 0ppm > > >> - Tank (midnight): pH: 7.4; Ammonia: almost .25ppm; Nitrite: > > > almost 0ppm; > > >> Nitrate: slightly over 10ppm > > >> - CB has been very active today - almost back to normal. > > >> > > >> I figured since the fungus is a thing of the past I should > > > probably > > >> change the subject line. > > >> > > >> Noting the Ammonia level, since I gave the PraziPro yesterday > > > at 5pm, > > >> should I do a PWC and treat the replacement water with PraziPro or > > > should I > > >> just add more Prime to control the ammonia? > > >> > > >> I’m looking for someplace to take a water sample from the > > > aquarium and > > >> have it tested so I can tell if my kit is giving me accurate > > > results. Will > > >> PetSmart do that kind of thing? I only know of one LFS and as I > > > said before > > >> it’s kind of a dirty little place. I might buy sealed containers > > > of fish > > >> products, but I wouldn’t buy any fish there and I’m not so sure I’d > > > trust > > >> their advice. > > >> > > >> Also, since everyone agrees that Lucille probably doesn’t have > > >> Septicemia, should I stop replacing salt with any PWCs? I really > > > don’t > > >> think it’s a color change. It looks much more like blood to me. > > >> > > >> Someone mentioned about CB’s tail is so short. It was longer > > > in spots, > > >> but raggedy, and the raggedy bits finally fell off, but the tail > > > seems to be > > >> growing back some, now. Now that the fish are acting healthier, I > > > do notice > > >> Lucille nipping at CB’s tail sometimes. I had originally suspected > > > that > > >> both CB’s and Raven’s tails had been nibbled on. In a 10 gallon > > > tank, where > > >> could they have escaped to? Hopefully, I can keep Lucille > > > entertained > > >> enough and give CB places to hide. > > >> > > >> DebR and the Three Goldfish > > >> (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > >> > > >> ——————–Insertion for continuity————— > > >> > > >> Deb, As \Steve// suggests (points out), usually as a normal > > >> progression of Hemorrhagic Septicemia in fish, it will be noted as > > >> starting at the base of the fins — not as starting at the exterior > > >> finges of the fins. While I couldn’t get a very clear picture, it > > >> doesn’t seem as if this condition exists in your fish. Of course, > > >> keep us advised of any changes. Its quite normal for many Goldfish > > >> to change color and color patterns as they grow, and as your’s are > > >> resuming growth, this may well be what is taking place. This > > >> generally occurs when they are slightly older — and by this, its > > >> conceded that along with the slight additional age at which this > > >> occurs, the fish would naturally be larger. As your fish may have > > >> been held back in growth, and may not be indicative of this > > >> phenomenon, their age may be sufficient for them to start > > >> undergoing these changes, but keep us posted. Ray > > >> > > >> — In AquaticLife@yahoogroups.com > > >> > > >> > > , “Menagerie_Manager” > > >> wrote: > > >> > > > >> > I tried to get pictures and they’re just too fuzzy. I did > > > get > > >> a short > > >> > video, though, that might be clear enough: > > >> > http://www.facebook.com/p.php? > > >> > > > >> > > > > > i=1124712084&k=Z6MZP3SZU4YCUCGHTGZ2WSU > > >> > OR > > >> > http://tinyurl.com/Lucille-Tail > > >> > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > DebR and the Three Goldfish > > >> > (CB, Lucille, and Raven) > > >> > > > > >
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